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10/18/2010

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  • ky308guy

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It seems as if we're talking about the Designated Marksman's rifle/role. With the 69 grain ammo and a decent scope the AR-15 chambered in 5.56 is still up to the job. Every summer they shoot this weapon platform and 5.56 round out to 1,000 yards at Camp Perry quite effectively. Let's quit bashing the AR-platform and the 5.56 round and embrace it. It's here to stay for quite a long time to come. Quit looking for a magic rifle/bullet combo and learn to utilize an All American weapon system. In the hand's of a person who knows how to shoot at distance it will do the job. The key is to learn how to shoot at distance. The only way to do that, is to do that! Screw all those Euro-trash rifles. I'm sick of hearing about them. I'd take the M1-Garand over all of them.

"PERFECT IS THE ENEMY OF GOOD ENOUGH!"

Great info, while I have a full legnth FAL, I can see where the congo para would be more desirable for the role listed. Wont be getting one of those any time soon so I will have to make do with my AKs and FAL.

I like the LWRC REPR medium weight 20" barrel with a 4X16v 30mm tube 56mm objective. Mount is a LaRue QD 20 slope. BUIS are Troy flip up. 308/7.63 cal rifle. What is the cost and how available is the FAL?

I own Col. Jeff Cooper's third try at a Scout Rifle, sold to me by "Sensei" Ric Wykoff, one of the old school "Cooper's" Gunsite cadre back in the day. A 1903A3, with 18" barrel, good peeps, a Ruger No. 1 quarter rib affixed forward of the action, with a 2x6 Bushnell Trophy pistol scope mounted on it. While the scope is a mite higher than I'd like, it's servicable. While it's a bolt action, and no semi-auto spitter of empties, I can use pretty fast and serviceable stripper clips for it. That being said, and with .30-06 being no slouch in the knock-down or accuracy department, I can appreciate that it might not be an ideal candidate for the GPCR. My buddy, whom I'll call "The Wop", indeed has a SOCOM 16", which is plenty accurate to the ranges listed above, will take a good LOW mounted scope, and with a Schuster gas plug to adjust his barrel harmonics/accuracy, that amazing stubby little bench legged monstrosity is probably a better choice especially in the quick reloading department. Sigh, his pops in 20 rounds to my 5, and at the ranges involved, "a hit's a hit" in either caliber. Makes me look long and hard at that Springfield, sentimentality or not, and think.....might I not be better off with a SOCOM also? Cheers on the article, hope lots of people put in their two cents' worth and we see where this takes us. Who knows....maybe the Tanker Garand will make a comeback.....

I'll agree if we are talking about real under 40,-heathly- trained government issued soliders. Now when super trooper twists thier ankle on the way out of the 'copter things get interesting for them. Some of us civilans have our share of health issues. The whole "cowboy up" thing after too many rodeos, is a lot easier said than done. ;)

So top three? Any M1A with a shortened barrel (less than 20?), FAL, and AK54.

This is the basic concept of the battle rifle. All NATO Cold War soldiers were expected to engage targets out to 500 meters with a rack grade rifle with issue ammo.
Any rifle issued to NATO troops during this period in .30 cal. should fill this role nicely.
A big bonus of many of these rifles is the large surplus of quality rifle magazines available.
I've alway felt that even though the military had abandoned the idea in favor of the smaller calibers, the .30 cal still held value to the armed American.
The ability to punch hard cover and engage at extended distances gave the small group or individual an advantage they would greatly need against superior numbers.

Nice to see some one re-addressing the concept.
Keep up the good work Gabe.


All the rifles displayed are scoped. A scoped rifle with any magnification above 2.0x is just about useless for CQB, really.

I am sure you will get plenty of argument in favor of the 5.56. I am staying out of that argument, as I tend to agree with you in the long distance/impact debate.

Glad you mentioned the Saiga 308. Properly equipped, with the Tapco Intafuse system,it makes for a very good GPCR package. Even with its basic iron sights, I can hit a 12" steel plate at 400 yards. Beyond that, I really do need a scope. That's just me, an old Marine.

I would avoid like the plague any Frankenstein-ish parts monster CETMEs. Buy a complete rifle, unless you really know what you are doing.

M1As are considered by many to be a rifleman's rifle. I owned one, and was not impressed with its accuracy, so I sold it. Dependable, durable, reliable, yes. Accurate, no. I'd buy a Scout or SOCOM, if they were more affordable and had better accuracy.
When gun magazines (Gun Tests, etc) do tests on these, they often print the accuracy specs based on a 50 YARD target. The 100 yard accuracy was too embarssring, maybe??

Jeff Cooper's advocates will weigh in on the Scout rifle, I am sure. I LOVE these type of rifles, personally, but you really pointed out quite well their limitations. I would opt for my Saiga 308 over my Sako 308 Scout rifle without for a GPCR, no question.

Great topic and thought provoking article. Thanks.

You said,

"If the man cannot carry a ten pound rifle in the field then rather than do with a substandard weapon that is lighter, the better solution is to strengthen the man."

So true and should be obvious, yet I think the idea of physically stepping up to the requirements of the weapon is often neglected in the pursuit of making it lighter. And that is only one of many reason for a man to strengthen himself.

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